June 20, 2017

Discussion group – CETEP / Irecê auditorium, BA – Brazil

Date: 12/9/16

Shift: afternoon

Approximate duration: 1 hour

Participants: one mediator, two teachers, one coordinator and the students of the third and fourth year of the administration course.


Teacher: We will be discussing Zika virus  with a group of students and teachers of the third and fourth year of afternoon administration here in the territorial education center of Irecê- CETEP. Today is the final  evidence-based discussion  of your studies. There were several tasks that were completely previously. Now in the auditorium we will be talking  about the  topic and your views based on arguments and evidence that support or refutes your decisions. Are you favor or not to the extermination of the Aedes mosquito?  You must present your informed opinions. So who would like to start this debate by saying your views and reasons? Could we start with the last group sitting at the end of this room? What do you think about he topic and the activity

Student 1: My group and I , that is, the whole room, the moment the project was passed to us, we were not interested in a certain way, it was not a subject we had contact with . From the moment that the research was passed to us, we were certainly arousing interest because it was something that “ah, I saw in the newspaper, but in the region it does not have much case”; But when we went deeper into the subject “it was something that would certainly hurt us” and our group came to the conclusion of non-extermination because of the food chain right now, and also has the issue of genetically modified mosquitoes, which, Shape, is in favor but also, in a way, is against because from the moment that is loose many mosquitoes can be overcrowding of the species in a certain place,

Teacher: Did you initially say that your group at first, alias you initially would have made the choice for extermination, before the studies, and what made your opinion change?

Student 1: It’s information right, the knowledge that this would not be the right way, nor would it be ensured that it would work.

Teacher: Okay. Who would like to disagree or bring an argument to support the extermination?

Student 2: My name is Student 2, I think the extermination would not be such a big thing, because as she said, there is a bat that feeds on it and there are other species that feed on the mosquito, but only that the mosquito is a thing So small that it is not just one, it has other species that others also feed on, so it would not have a major impact on nature or the ecosystem.

Student 3: But you have to see the case also of human life, right ?! Nobody wants to get sick and no one wants to die.

Student 2: And if it were to take away this disease that damages so much in the life of babies, it will be born with microcephaly, that is going to hurt both in their lives and in their parents, as is the suffering to raise a child that …

Student 4: Has the Prejudice

Student 2: That’s going to have it, so I think it would be better to exterminate the mosquito.

Teacher: Do you know cases close to you? Of people who have had Zica? Or to chikungunya?

Student 2: I saw a report and I saw that it is very painful, you stay, not only once, you will be prolonging this period until you find the cure, but until now it has no cure and is very painful.

Teacher: Dengue, did you have?

Student 2 and Student 3: Yes, already

Teacher: Dengue yes

Student 2: And it’s also a period that is very troubled, you have a fever, you have pains and it’s all because of the mosquito.

Student 4: You stay in school

Student 2: And in is from our country, from what the boys said he was Egyptian, so since he did not have here, to survive without him too.

Teacher: The classmate asked to speak here.

Student 5: As our group was in favor of the extermination of the mosquito I wanted to defend this sense because it is not, for example, interferes in the food chain, but the frog does not feed directly on the mosquito aedes aegypti, it feeds on the Muriçoca, he can feed on the mosquito, other mosquitoes, not exactly that mosquito understood?

Student 6: Only then, as she said that he can also feed on other mosquitoes, if there is an animal that is accustomed to eating this mosquito, until he gets used to eating another species, it will be a long time, so what can happen Is the extinction of this animal.

Student 7: As she said and how he talked about exterminating the mosquito, never has to exterminate only one species of mosquito will end up exterminating other species as well and this is what will cause damage in the ecosystem, why you will exterminate only the mosquito aedes ? No, it will also exterminate the mosquito and other types of species because, for example, it has been exterminated with dedetizer and will kill other types of mosquitoes, all types of mosquitoes and will harm the whole of nature.

Teacher: Let’s hear your colleague here

Student 8: Exactly, with him he talked about the insecticide, so the point is to find a solution that will not reach other mosquitoes that will reach only the aedes, something else, she said. ..

Teacher: What other solution would it be?

Student 8: We were going to research their genes, DNA, see something that only harmed him right, because each DNA is different, each species is different, as there is a species that gets along with something and we, Do not, that to us already is harmful, then it is to see the DNA of each species. Speaking of it, of the food, which feeds on various things, there is the frog, it does not eat the mosquito every day, it varies the menu, and another thing we have already extinction of other species, I would be hypocritical to say here That this would not interfere, but then we had to calculate how intensely this would interfere with us, humans, or the ecosystem, we have already seen there several extinctions that were not harmful to our existence in the earth plant so that I am in favor of extermination, but calculated.

Student 2: He said he does not know if he can exterminate only the species of aedes aegypti, but since science today is very advanced in its technology, it has, why, since, I will cite an example, a monkey inside it has the Ebola virus, this virus for him is not harmful, but when this virus passed to the human, it was harmful, it brought several bad things to the human, then had to invent a virus that is just a virus or something that Was only harmful to the mosquito Aedes aegypti, would not be for the other species.

Teacher: Did you study the question of ebola in the course of research for this work?

Student 2: That, we discovered this in the course of research.

Teacher: Who else?

Boy 3: The proposal of my group was a little different from the others, while some decided to exterminate or not exterminate, we were flexible, we decided to exterminate in totally infected areas to reduce the disease in place, the intensity of the mosquitoes, so fight in a controlled way , Control the places that are most affected and others that are not. It is more flexible than others, it does not subject exterminate and not only fight, be flexible on both sides.

Teacher: And you, have you come up with any indication of what possibilities there would be to diminish, to make that specific control and combat? What could be done?

Student 7: The data that were passed on to us so far, Oxitec did tests and things like that, and some of them were put into practice, they tested on genetically modified mosquitoes in more infected areas, then drastically reduced the number of mosquitoes, So that this could be done in large areas affected, and in the few affected control in a simpler way not to eliminate altogether.

Student 9: My name is Student 9 and I would like to talk about some points that everyone presented. The points about fighting or not, why not fighting, why it is a kind of food for other animals, such as the frog and the bat, but this is not their only food, this is not the only food that The frog and the mosquito can get it, so it is not the end of the other animals if this potential is exterminated. Other ways of thinking is that by exterminating we might be giving up surveys, they said that his saliva was a form of anti-inflammatory, sort of thing.



Student 9: It will just end up there for him, someone else will have to appear there, who is another genius to solve this situation. The extermination is also impossible to exterminate completely, the personnel achieved in 1950 and affected even in humans, they were exterminating with both arms without stopping and now in our turn we are not wanting to exterminate exactly, but decrease the level of it, decrease the number , In a way that at least a greater number of people can survive, so that’s my point.

Professor: Regarding this research you mentioned, of this attempt to exterminate in the 50’s, where did you get those data? What source was this?

Student 9: Some sites that have talked about a researcher, which she has even talked about covers something I said there in my program, so they are studying 20 years, 20 years that are studying a way to modify the genetics of these mosquitoes, they will Pass on to the male mosquitoes and they will reproduce with the females and the new genes will appear with, is that it will not transmit diseases. And the other research is also done, which is being done in Brazil that is incapacitating the new generation of mosquitoes to copulate, so it is as I said in our team, the first research that comes with results is that we have to Accept, it is not a matter of preventing the environment and just to prevent humans, is that the first solution we get to have to use,

Teacher: Thank you! Who else?

Student 2: I know that many groups advocate the genetically modified mosquito, but if the genetically modified mosquito can mated with all the wild females and all, reproduce the mosquito, and the mosquito is born weak and in the same way die, it will not eradicate same way? And also, something else, I know it is wrong, it is not ethical to exterminate the mosquito, because it is something that is already before us, but only that we must also think about the human being, if in Brazil today the health already In this decadence, imagine with overcrowding, these mosquitoes only transmitting disease, every year that passes is a new disease, will Brazil have the infrastructure to support so many sick people?

Teacher: That’s a good question.

Student 8: What I was going to say, this mosquito he gets other viruses, so until today we know he’s 4, imagine in a few years how it’s going to be, because if he catches an infected people, he, Ebola began during the canopy, there came some Africans here, there the mosquito was, stung and acquired the virus, who said that it can not acquire other new viruses, and gives this outbreak the same is happening in Brazil again, so it is What do we have to see? Why does he broadcast 4 today and tomorrow and then?

Student 4: There’s a question of it developing too, right ?! The mosquito may develop in a while too, it can develop and bring on other diseases as well.

Teacher: Suffering mutation?

Student 4: That, exactly.

Student 10: And, who did not even talk about mosquito control, decreasing the amount of the species. But the mosquito it takes seven days to turn, the larva takes seven days to become mosquito and such, then this control would lose the notion, because if they control such amount it will reproduce more quickly, so I think that would be unnecessary .

Teacher: And, it’s a few days, right ?! Seven? It’s seven days. How did you find out this seven-day number?

Student 5: I, particularly, did not do a research, but in the course of the presentation of the other colleagues, because they were different formations, we received this information that it was seven days that the mosquito was carrying.

Professor: They were alive for seven days, it’s nice of you to bring this up, but it’s important, for example, when we make some argument like that, for example, according to the data, as he put it, of Oxitec, If it turns and says like that, it’s not seven, it’s not ten, then you say “seven or ten?”, “Where did I read that it was seven? What is the scientific source that will support this information? “But it’s cool, and it’s only a few days right? Who else?

Student 2: He also talked about eradicating, not, diminishing right? So how is it going to diminish? Because if you use a product or something to diminish it will always reproduce, you will not have to, and you’re going to spend a certain capital, every time, every year about it there, to decrease, that money you could be using to Eradicate mosquitoes you could invest in health, education and other places, but you will be worrying about another subject that is this mosquito.

Teacher: Guys, what is the purpose of the mosquito’s existence? Why does the mosquito exist on the planet? I could not hear you, the boys here are shy. Yes, and so if we started to think that way, why even of existence? Because everything you have on the planet has a purpose, does not it? What is the purpose of the mosquito?

Student 11: But it’s really a cycle right ?! One animal feeds on the other, on the other, on the other, until it reaches a point, then it is a System, it is a cycle, since it exists to feed and feed on something, so that is basically it. It’s the same thing that I ask you, and the humans, they so here for what?

Teacher: That’s also a good question.

Student 1: I just wanted to talk about the cycle, that everyone focused on the frog, that the frog does not feed only on the mosquito, certainly it does not feed only on the mosquito, it also feeds on the larva, the larva Feed on algae, if we exterminate mosquitoes and larvae there will be overcrowding of algae, most of the bats, their main food is the mosquito, so let’s assume that half of the bats die, the eagles, there are more eagles than bats , As if they would remain, then in effect, exterminating there would be a major imbalance in the food chain.

Student 3 speaks: The right is to decrease

Student 1: No matter how small a mosquito he is, he is a small mosquito, but his extermination will cause a great imbalance.

Teacher: Okay, so the colleague put there that maybe the way was to reduce, what possibilities we would have to reduce.

Student 1: It’s nothing to do with this question, but it has been reported in the newspapers that people who have the virus virus, the best way to prevent the mosquito from getting contaminated is to use repellents, because instead of focusing on the development of mosquito , Does not focus on the development of a vaccine that could repel these people from the mosquito, then it would not have contact with the virus, nor would it contaminate other people.

Student 4: Alias ​​nobody has money all the time, to buy repellent to pass, Brazil is in crisis, has no money.

Teacher: Ahh, and there are natural repellents?

All: There is

Teacher: Tell me this experience, have you ever produced repellent here? Then explain to me how it was, who can help me? Did you elect her as your spokesperson? Tell me how it was

Student 1: Our focus was, a project developed by Professor Denise, she brought us the issue of dengue, ahh and several people are allergic to artificial repellents, the ones that sell m pharmacy, let’s develop an artificial, natural repellent, Sorry, at the lowest cost and suppose, all people have access and can produce at home.

Teacher: For example?

Student 2: It is made of clove, alcohol, an oil to be able to pass, if not dry, not to attack the skin, and I think only. It’s just that it repels, repels completely, like the other artificial repellents, and it’s more in mind.

Student 1: He’s more into account, but you also have to point out that he has less durability, understand? It does not have the same durability as a repellent sold in the pharmacy

Student 2: He has one point more than the other, because he has no substance whatsoever, chemical, that can attack the skin, that can or will bring allergy to some substance that somebody is allergic, it is totally Natural, that’s why it’s better.

Teacher: Interesting

Student 11: Bia talked about the vaccine, right, to prevent it from plaguing us, but will not it bring another problem? Why do mosquitoes feed on us, on our blood, and oh, how was he going to stay?

Student 10: And you did not even say that the money you would spend exterminating the mosquito could promote new vaccines, and the money I will spend to control it? Would not money be spent also for mosquito control? Or would the people on their own make them available to fight these mosquitoes? To reduce the amount of mosquitoes?

Student 1: Student 10 spoke of control. The control, let’s suppose, is natural, like, the frog feeds on it, so the frog is created to control it, except that we assume that he is not taking notice, and also what Student 11 said, Will feed on that. Is I talked about the issue of the vaccine, but for example, I do not contaminated by the virus zika, I can be without taking the vaccine because it only transmits the virus from the moment it stings a person contaminated

Student 4: But imagine if you take a sting, will you get it?

Student 12: But so, I think the vaccine, to prevent so many diseases were eradicated because of the vaccine, take the vaccine, the mosquito will sting, will continue to take our blood, but you will not contract the virus.

Teacher: It will continue existing right

Student 12: Only you will not get the virus any more

Student 10: They could promote people who did not have contact with the virus, could not take the vaccine and the people with contact could also take the vaccine, only an issue that our group was discussing, that we became very curious (… ).


Student 10: Another thing that leaves me in doubt, is because we wanted to understand, and still we will research, further study, where the virus came from for this mosquito to acquire, from where he had access for him to acquire this virus and pass To other people, we wanted to understand the source of the virus that he came into contact with.


Student 11: Since we’re talking about where it came from, why at this time, in this century is it being so talked about?

Student 2: With her said, there is a …

Teacher: Do you have any assumptions?

Student 10: No

Student 11: If it’s done in the laboratory, why if we go and see we have an animal today, what’s the pit bull that was developed in the laboratory, which part of them are other parts of animals.


Student 11: (…) the cure in the origin of the diseases, then it would be good to know.

Student 2: It was more or less what I wanted to talk about, because there are some researches here that have, the years that were bigger, and before was very little cases, and when it arrived from 2015 to that year, the number of people contaminated Rose


Student 2: (…) as a genetic mutation that Student 3 did in a laboratory, was it not some reaction that is having on our planet that is causing mosquitoes to develop with a larger virus, that is what we are Researching

Teacher: That, what factors have interfered with that.

Student 9: I have a question here, if Student 3 here has information about how long the mosquito has already, it transmits the four diseases that were cited, dengue, zica, yellow fever, have a fourth there? And chikungunya. How long have these viruses been known to be transmitted by the mosquito? Why so, people are saying that it was used as a chemical, biological weapon, but the people started to use these weapons, these devices, not long ago and these mosquitoes came with the transportation of the slaves in the sixteenth century, so the number Does not hit, but when it was with the mosquito it started to transmit this virus, this disease, as it developed, it developed in this way, I would say it up in a somewhat natural way why if he got that kind of ability Transmit this disease,

Student 13: Actually he spoke of another mosquito actually transmitting that it is the tiger mosquito, which it transmits so much dengue, the chikungunya, I do not remember if it transmits the zika, but I know that in addition to these two that the dengue mosquito transmits , It will transmit malaria, I saw a survey that said that you eventually wiping out the dengue mosquito, that other mosquito can type, if you breed more, why will not have the dengue mosquito, so it could not be a good one too, Because you have to end up fighting the other too.

Student 9: They have to bring information about how this mosquito of the chikungunya is inventing others as much as they

Student 14: Yes, speaking of the origin a friend quoted rightly in his work that it is so much that he wants to speak a little there, that his name originates there from Egypt aedes, I believe mosquito and aegypti, Egypt, but so an origin But we did not find it, because people who lived there in that decade are not alive to tell it today, but rather it originates there from Egypt its name is so much that aegypti is Egypt and He wants to talk.

Boy 3: They raised the question of how much this project would cost, right, the same question I can talk about, how much does it cost to turn a bottle, to prevent new mosquitoes from reproducing? By law in the Brazilian constitution, he says, it is incumbent upon the public power to protect the fauna and flora prohibited by law from practices that endanger its ecological function. So some animals, or all to be more sincere, are protected by law, at least here in Brazil, if it were raised the question of exterminating the whole would have to face the law in order to eliminate it.

Professor: Interesting what you bring, right, this question of the legality of the extermination of a species right, agent had not yet thought, I mean, I have not yet realized.

Student 3: It’s because you came a little late

Teacher: That I came a little late, right, that impediment, interesting. That you went to look for in the legislation, in the constitution was this? In the federal constitution?

Boy 3: That was created in 1988 this law

Teacher: Do you have the article? Let me put it in here, just a minute. OK; So I heard a buzz here.

Student 11: This is why the business is not the origin of the virus, which we already know was in Egypt, but the origin of the disease, that from a time he acquired this disease, and also has to see The law business, whether it is a perpetual law, whether it can be changed or whether it can be debated, between countries or between Brazil or between states, that we can see there, but no law is perpetual, so much as the one that speaks That the minimum limit, so for us is 18 years can be debated there too, it goes against the constitution, but depending on the decade, the year and the time can be debated and can be changed.

Student 2: He talked about the constitution was? About protecting mosquitoes?

Professor: He brought an article of the federal constitution of 88, which prevents us from developing actions that cause the extermination of species.

Student 2: But I wanted to ask him a question, if he were the president of Brazil, and he saw that people were dying, in the case of this mosquito, what would he do if he would let people die because of the mosquito ?

Student 11: Exactly, this way we would be exterminated, it is one species against another.

Teacher: And come here, and who is responsible pole registration of the constitution is the president?

All: No

Teacher: How are the laws made?

Student 11: Senate. In fact passes through the chamber of deputies, senate, then if it is approved there goes and punishes the president.

Teacher: Via popular participation, right?

Boy 3: If I had the position of president, I being president, I do not have the full power to decide only what I want, and it is necessary for people to support what I want then people in their right mind, I do not think they would take into account the extermination Of a species, whatever it was, which was quoted by some of my colleagues, has benefits, even the mosquito, so what is needed is either control or we eradicate at least part of them.

Student 1: And what would be the punishment, if in case, a country decided to exterminate a species?

Student 9: Punishment? How many countries are in this law?

All: Only in Brazil

Student 9: So it’s a question so one country will choose to exterminate the other will choose to control, the other will choose to fight, and we are thinking of a law of 88, the situation was not the same as nowadays, And it will not be the same as 10 years from now.

Student 1: Here also, the sample of our repellent, which we produced, it has a not very nice smell, but it has already been proven that it repels and was also signed by our teacher Pedro Primo who is a chemist.

Teacher: Was it patented?

Student 1: No, not yet.

Teacher: Do you know the formula of this repellent? What do you have, what compound?

Student 1: We know

Teacher: What do you have there?

Student 1: Carnation, alcohol and baby oil.

Teacher: Did you test?

Student 1: Aham, we even traded in expoagri this year.

Teacher: Do you have a record? How did you guys do that to market?

Student 1: We developed, passed by the teacher that he is an expert and a chemist, he approved and gave permission for us to market, we developed the label, the packaging, everything was produced by ourselves.

Student 11: He had until name vote

Student 10: And every substance that was used, because there are people who are allergic to this type of product.

Student 11: Exactly

Teacher: And you did these searches to know how you create label, design construction?

Student 1: The room was divided into groups, and each group developed a label, and then people who were not involved in the project voted, and then came to the conclusion that the label would be the best to put on the product.

Teacher: Great, very interesting this work of yours. Anything else?

Student 14: That’s it, Student 3 here wants to die, wants to be extinct.

Teacher: People. It’s a dilemma, that’s a dilemma. Good people, I thank each one of you for participating, for collaboration and at any time for these